Final Fantasy VII Remake: Some fans are mad because Barret "looks white"

[Akira86]

I'm cracking up at the attempt to criticise new Barret's skin tone turning into a discussion about how hot he is. XD

His voice is still terrible though.

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I guess you get to laugh and I get to roll my eyes.
Always count on games to fuck something up. Vaguely ethnic Barret.

i guess its a good thing i'm not so desperately invested and starved of racial representation, so I don't have to get excited over a black guy being in Final Fantasy anymore. it does kind of suck, the direction they went, but whatever.

 

[Crayon]

Yeah, the best way to reflect on this in real life is to pay attention to black people who are deemed attractive. It's not that it isn't "black" to look this way. It's that it isn't a coincidence that black people that look closer to European standards are deemed more attractive even among black people.

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This is what im seeing. It's not at all a question of 'black enough' or 'what black should be'. The issue is, as you point out, perhaps better understood by looking at who is deemed attractive and the clear patterns there.

 

[NineConsonants]

This is what im seeing. It's not at all a question of 'black enough' or 'what black should be'. The issue is, as you point out, perhaps better understood by looking at who is deemed attractive and the clear patterns there.

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This problem is also common in other cultures too. India is a great example of this.

Look at the result of these two Google Image Search queries.

"Indian Celebrities"

"Indian People"

 

[Deleted member 27471]

No, I don't really ever see Japanese media companies get backlash for making properly proportioned black characters with common African features. In this situation, I think the best thing to do is to research a particular African ethnic group and model your character around that. It would be a bad idea to just grab-bag a bunch of stereotypical traits without much direction. And it wouldn't be surprising if artists in Japan are not as well-versed in designing black characters compared to other races. So lean on real-life as a reference point.

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I think your earlier post sharing photo of celebrities says it all. The typical frame of reference for most these things is what has become the idealized version of black which is seen among these celebrities. You could easily add a ton of skin bleached celebrities to that list. Barret is black, but if anyone wants to argue they want to see him darker or share more typical African traits, that's reasonable.

 

[Deleted member 27471]

This problem is also common in other cultures too. India is a great example of this.

Look at the result of these two Google Image Search queries.

"Indian Celebrities"

"Indian People"

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This is everywhere. Just look at any cultures entertainment industry.

 

[Lukemia SL]

You know how I'm going to answer the first two, obviously people have different features. Mr. T the big angry gold chain wearing cursing black man is problematic for many reasons by today's standards.

Look you have good points, I'm not here to argue. I just wanted to share my thoughts on barrett's portrayal in that specific image. I dont expect everyone to agree with my views.

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All in all I think the best take away we can both accept is that black people have different features. If not then if we can find mutual ground on this I want to work towards that.

I understand too why Mr T can be seen as problematic I just want to know now a good alternative voice characteristic for him? Like Terry Crews? Lester Speight? Something just deep like Vin Diesel.

I don't know the Mr T type is too ingrained in my head when it comes to Barret but I am willing to hear a different voice if it fits the character.

 

[Viale]

Two things, ingame Barret isn't as sexy as that render lol, and is very clearly black.

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Dunno what you're talking about. Barret is still one sexy beast in these pics.

Also, I can kind of sympathize with the comments of whitewashing to a degree. He' still very clearly a black man, but he is definitely lighter skinned than the original and the concept art implied with him being quite dark there. Of course, it's possible that they're just adding more nuance to his skin tone than was previously possible or that they back then they wanted it as obvious as absolutely possible and made him darker as a result.

 

[Crossing Eden]

have any side-by-side screenshots of this? I honestly can't remember

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I think something that would be more identifying is if somebody touched up his skin color in these photos to make him look more white. Whether his facial features looked strange then would make either point more clear.


Also, this bolded statement is literally what I'm talking about people....

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Good idea.

Dunno what you're talking about. Barret is still one sexy beast in these pics.

Also, I can kind of sympathize with the comments of whitewashing to a degree. He' still very clearly a black man, but he is definitely lighter skinned than the original and the concept art implied with him being quite dark there. Of course, it's possible that they're just adding more nuance to his skin tone than was previously possible or that they back then they wanted it as obvious as absolutely possible and made him darker as a result.

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I mean before he didn't have any whatsoever subsurface scattering. Harsh lights=harsh effects on skin tone.

 

[NineConsonants]

All in all I think the best take away we can both accept is that black people have different features. If not then if we can find mutual ground on this I want to work towards that.

I understand too why Mr T can be seen as problematic I just want to know now a good alternative voice characteristic for him? Like Terry Crews? Lester Speight? Something just deep like Vin Diesel.

I don't know the Mr T type is too ingrained in my head when it comes to Barret but I am willing to hear a different voice if it fits the character.

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His voice is just too animated. And the way how he blows up with "What in the hell?!" and "What the hell are we supposed to do?!?!" sounds like they're treating him like the original version. Look at how Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Jessie, and Sephiroth all sound rather normal. Like, they're talking in a tone you would expect from person in real life. Nobody talks like the way Barret does in the demo they showed. At least, if they talked like that, people would think he's being weird. I wish they toned him down a bit. I still want him to be direct and more on the aggressive-side, but realistically.

For example, I'd like it if he had Lawrence Fishburne's attitude in this scene:

 

[Lukemia SL]

His voice is just too animated. And the way how he blows up with "What in the hell?!" and "What the hell are we supposed to do?!?!" sounds like they're treating him like the original version. Look at how Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Jessie, and Sephiroth all sound rather normal. Like, they're talking in a tone you would expect from person in real life. Nobody talks like the way Barret does in the demo they showed. At least, if they talked like that, people would think he's being weird. I wish they toned him down a bit. I still want him to be direct and more on the aggressive-side, but realistically.

For example, I'd like it if he had Lawrence Fishburne's attitude in this scene:

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I hear what you are saying, people really don't talk like him besides that Big Brody vine dude. Barret is a larger than life character so I just assumed that's how he'd get away with it.
Plus yeah that Larry Fishburne clip that's a good example, I can see Barret talking like him. In fact I need to watch this movie, thanks.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

If he is white, then I must be fucking Powder.

 

[NineConsonants]

I hear what you are saying, people really don't talk like him besides that Big Brody vine dude. Barret is a larger than life character so I just assumed that's how he'd get away with it.
Plus yeah that Larry Fishburne clip that's a good example, I can see Barret talking like him. In fact I need to watch this movie, thanks.

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Plus, it's a little weird to have such a big dude act like he has a Napoleon-complex. Usually, bigger people tend to more show and less tell when it comes to intimidation.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Look at how Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Jessie, and Sephiroth all sound rather normal. Like, they're talking in a tone you would expect from person in real life.

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Let's uhhhh...let's not get crazy here.

 

[Lukemia SL]

Plus, it's a little weird to have such a big dude act like he has a Napoleon-complex. Usually, bigger people tend to more show and less tell when it comes to intimidation.

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It's been a while since I played the original to completion. Didn't Barret kinda calm down a bit after the part about Marlene's father?
I may be misremembering.

 

[Renna Hazel]

His voice is just too animated. And the way how he blows up with "What in the hell?!" and "What the hell are we supposed to do?!?!" sounds like they're treating him like the original version. Look at how Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Jessie, and Sephiroth all sound rather normal. Like, they're talking in a tone you would expect from person in real life. Nobody talks like the way Barret does in the demo they showed. At least, if they talked like that, people would think he's being weird. I wish they toned him down a bit. I still want him to be direct and more on the aggressive-side, but realistically.

For example, I'd like it if he had Lawrence Fishburne's attitude in this scene:

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Honestly, I think more of my friends would act like Barret rather than Cloud in these type of scenarios (giant scorpion robots attacking). Cloud seems way too calm to be considered realistic.

 

[NineConsonants]

Honestly, I think more of my friends would act like Barret rather than Cloud in these type of scenarios (giant scorpion robots attacking). Cloud seems way too calm to be considered realistic.

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Not really, Barret is just extreme in all his emotions. When he saves Cloud, he says "Don't you have something to say to yours truly" in the middle of the fight with a lot of attitude. I doubt your friends would say that in the middle of a giant scorpion robot fight.

 

[Renna Hazel]

Not really, Barret is just extreme in all his emotions. When he saves Cloud, he says "Don't you have something to say to yours truly" in the middle of the fight with a lot of attitude. I doubt your friends would say that in the middle of a giant scorpion robot fight.

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Yeah, neither of them are realistic, I just think Barret would be closer to how people I know act.

 

[NineConsonants]

Yeah, neither of them are realistic, I just think Barret would be closer to how people I know act.

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By realistic, I mean talking in a manner one tends to talk in general. Barret sounds like a pro-wrestler on the clock.

 

[StarStorm]

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His skin tone is a little lighter in the render, but he's hot AF.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I can't believe this topic is still going.

Please use your fucking brains. Barret is 100% black. He doesn't look mixed.

 

[pleaseinsertdisctwo]

I guess you get to laugh and I get to roll my eyes.
Always count on games to fuck something up. Vaguely ethnic Barret.

i guess its a good thing i'm not so desperately invested and starved of racial representation, so I don't have to get excited over a black guy being in Final Fantasy anymore. it does kind of suck, the direction they went, but whatever.

Click to shrink...

He's clearly black. Black people don't just have one skin tone. Go see an optometrist

 

[Valkerion]

His voice is just too animated. And the way how he blows up with "What in the hell?!" and "What the hell are we supposed to do?!?!" sounds like they're treating him like the original version. Look at how Cloud, Tifa, Aerith, Jessie, and Sephiroth all sound rather normal. Like, they're talking in a tone you would expect from person in real life. Nobody talks like the way Barret does in the demo they showed. At least, if they talked like that, people would think he's being weird. I wish they toned him down a bit. I still want him to be direct and more on the aggressive-side, but realistically.

For example, I'd like it if he had Lawrence Fishburne's attitude in this scene:

Click to shrink...

This problem is also common in other cultures too. India is a great example of this.

Look at the result of these two Google Image Search queries.

"Indian Celebrities"

"Indian People"

Click to shrink...

Both of these posts are great. 100% agree with you on his voice, its exactly how I feel.

 

[Remember]

My only issue is his voice. He sounds like a 4kids voice actor who somehow stumbled into a serious pixar recording session.

 

[ByteCulture]

Looks more like a beefed up Latino now. ;)

Maybe Square considers Cloud "White" and Barret "Black"? Otherwise Barret would just look like "Cloud"?

I dont know what Square is thinking. Culture differences from a japanese point of view maybe?

Compared to Cloud he looks good enough to me.

 

[Remember]

It shouldn't matter and only really does because black people are already underrepresented in the voice acting community.

If minority actors cant even book jobs to play minority characters, what chance do they have to land a leading role in an industry full to the brim with straight white male heros?

And yes, before people start quoting me Kratos, I know he's played by a black man but that is very much the exception and not the rule.

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I'll add on to this and say that Phil Lamarr should have been/should be where Troy Baker and Nolan North are now.

 

[Eolz]

No light source excuse now. Although POC has replaced black in current racial discourse so maybe he falls under that.

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Do you know what is a light source?

 

[Deleted member 888]

I guess you get to laugh and I get to roll my eyes.
Always count on games to fuck something up. Vaguely ethnic Barret.

i guess its a good thing i'm not so desperately invested and starved of racial representation, so I don't have to get excited over a black guy being in Final Fantasy anymore. it does kind of suck, the direction they went, but whatever.

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"Vaguely ethnic Barret"

The fuck?

This whole debate has been a disgrace since the start.

 

[Naphu]

Hope they replace his VA for episode two. He makes every line sound lame AF.

 

[Jade1962]

Do you know what is a light source?

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The sun, a flash light, the moon, lights in a room, flash from a gun, an item that emits or reflects light. Hope that is a sufficient answer for you.

 

[Xeontech]

Interesting. Did they ever talk specifically his ethnicity in the original?

Is Barret mixed? African American/European?

Don't really agree though, he definitely looks 'black' in comparison to Cloud and Tifa to me.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Interesting. Did they ever talk specifically his ethnicity in the original?

Is Barret mixed? African American/European?

Don't really agree though, he definitely looks 'black' in comparison to Cloud and Tifa to me.

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He is black. This whole thing always reeked of peak white people define what blackness is then get outraged on behalf of black people.

Now the VA is iffy and I'll step back and allow it to be criticised, but this whole "Barret is basically white" is just erasing a mainstream Black character from an iconic series.

 

[Akira86]

He's clearly black. Black people don't just have one skin tone. Go see an optometrist

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I have variety vision and i'm pretty much looking at a 20 foot tall blow up billboard of the man. It's a question they didn't have to open up by changing his design this way. I'm very well aware that there are many skin tones because I usually have to settle for one that doesn't quite look like me whenever I play a Japanese game anyway.

 

[Akira86]

He is black. This whole thing always reeked of peak white people define what blackness is then get outraged on behalf of black people.

Now the VA is iffy and I'll step back and allow it to be criticised, but this whole "Barret is basically white" is just erasing a mainstream Black character from an iconic series.

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am i peak white people defining what blackness is and getting outraged on behalf of invisible blacks?

black by comparison? well i guess we take what we get.

and the media trend of replacing black faces with lighter and lighter skinned ethnic people has been going on in America for decades so the shit is not new.

 

[Deleted member 888]

am i peak white people defining what blackness is and getting outraged on behalf of invisible blacks?

black by comparison? well i guess we take what we get.

and the media trend of replacing black faces with lighter and lighter skinned ethnic people has been going on in America for decades so the shit is not new.

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You'd have a point if Barret was shown and in response to "feedback" or some other twisted nonsense at Square they started "lightening" Barret.

Right now it has just seemed like from day 1 his blackness was called into question because he "wasn't black enough", which, if you want to talk about issues is also a very real problem too where there is a trend of white people arguing over how "black" someone needs to be.

Like there is some threshold there needs to be for how black someone's pigmentation is before they can get signed off as "A black person".

Barret is black, he's always been black, even since the original FF7. Issues with Barret in the language he uses, script and now his VA are credible topics to discuss, arguing about whether he is black, not so much. IMO anyway.

 

[Akira86]

You'd have a point if Barret was shown and in response to "feedback" or some other twisted nonsense at Square they started "lightening" Barret.

Right now it has just seemed like from day 1 his blackness was called into question because he "wasn't black enough", which, if you want to talk about issues is also a very real problem too where there is a trend of white people arguing over how "black" someone needs to be.

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Is this that? because 80% of my conversations about this have been with black people.

and its not just his skin color. everyone i've talked with has mentioned his re-design.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Is this that? because 80% of my conversations about this have been with black people.

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Okay, my comments weren't about your personal conversations. Just a trend I've observed that often involves white people.

 

[Post Call Gaming]

It seems people are reacting to a single photo that has lighting which would skew the colours that become visible.

Regarding his hair... I don't know enough, to be honest, regarding the comment of "softeners", so I genuinely can't say.

I do agree about the voice not being particularly good. I find that Cloud has an appropriate-sounding voice actor but Barrett definitely feels out of place. In my head, he was always very much a Mr. T caricature to a certain degree but not taking the chance to at least modernize him to something else seems like a missed opportunity.

 

[Eolz]

The sun, a flash light, the moon, lights in a room, flash from a gun, an item that emits or reflects light. Hope that is a sufficient answer for you.

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Then you know that there is a light source (or even multiple) on this render.

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

Only thing weird about him is that his hair has different textures. Not to mention his voice is terrible
Apart from that, he's black. Period.
All this 'mixed' talk or him being white is some bullshit, he doesn't look that far off from his OG renders back in the day.

 

[silva1991]

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That is one beautiful man. They better not change him.

 

[iksenpets]

Lol he obviously does not look white. Even in that shit where the lighting can make him look paler, as soon as you pan out to have Cloud next to him it's immediately apparent than these guys are like 18 shades apart from each other. I will say their black hair texture is bad though. Like white dude buzz cut hair.

 

[Awesome Kev]

Ridiculous argument from people tripping over themselves to be offended.

He looks like a big, grown ass, gun arm wielding, bad mother fuckin black man. End of story.

 

[Pendragon_1095]

I definitely understand what you are getting at, and I can see why it's frustrating.

Do you ever wonder though about backlash going the other direction? That is to say, if the design was given a broader nose, and darker skin, and other features perceived as more "black". Do you think that a lot of people could potentially claim that the appearance would be a racist stereotype?

To me it seems to get this just right, it may be a bit of a tightrope walk.

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If they gave him the things you described I don't think there was be backlash at all. Just don't over exaggerate it like how old cartoons did.

 

[SturokBGD]

I guess you get to laugh and I get to roll my eyes.

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These things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Amauri14]

This problem is also common in other cultures too. India is a great example of this.

Look at the result of these two Google Image Search queries.

"Indian Celebrities"

"Indian People"

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Hell, that even happens in Africa. Have you ever heard of Khoudia Diop? She says that when she lived in Senegal she was teased because of her skin color.

 

[SsjCouri]

I honestly think whats throwing everyone off is his hair, as it appears to be short and straight? Im black and to me it seems odd they went with making his hair look that way? Nonetheless, I thought he looked amazing in the E3 footage we got.

 

[Ryengeku]

Not all black people look the exact same. Making him have stereotypical features would be just as bad.
Alot of black people are really light...

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I can attest to that as I am a light skin African American. Barrett looks even more "black" than me. "Stereotypical black" would be worse.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

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Who's this tan white Hispanic guy?

 

[Raspyberry]

I usually went Cloud, Barrett and Yuffie because I really like the ranged weapons in the game. And I just love how much of a little shit Yuffie is, lol

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Yuffie's always a great member. Really I've played through the game so much I've loved them all in my team. Cait Sith is probably my least liked but even he was fun at times.

 

[ultima786]

So this turned out not to be a thing at all, right (of course, speaking about FF7:r)?