• Member Since 28th Oct, 2012
  • offline last seen Yesterday

Pineta


Particle Physics and Pony Fiction Experimentalist

More Blog Posts441

  • 5 weeks
    Eclipse 2024

    Best of luck to everyone chasing the solar eclipse tomorrow. I hope the weather behaves. If you are close to the line of totality, it is definitely worth making the effort to get there. I blogged about how awesome it was back in 2017 (see: Pre-Eclipse Post, Post-Eclipse

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    10 comments · 169 views
  • 13 weeks
    End of the Universe

    I am working to finish Infinite Imponability Drive as soon as I can. Unfortunately the last two weeks have been so crazy that it’s been hard to set aside more than a few hours to do any writing…

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    6 comments · 179 views
  • 16 weeks
    Imponable Update

    Work on Infinite Imponability Drive continues. I aim to get another chapter up by next weekend. Thank you to everyone who left comments. Sorry I have not been very responsive. I got sidetracked for the last two weeks preparing a talk for the ATOM society on Particle Detectors for the LHC and Beyond, which took rather more of my time than I

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    1 comments · 165 views
  • 17 weeks
    Imponable Interlude

    Everything is beautiful now that we have our first rainbow of the season.

    What is life? Is it nothing more than the endless search for a cutie mark? And what is a cutie mark but a constant reminder that we're all only one bugbear attack away from oblivion?

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    3 comments · 229 views
  • 19 weeks
    Quantum Decoherence

    Happy end-of-2023 everyone.

    I just posted a new story.

    EInfinite Imponability Drive
    In an infinitely improbable set of events, Twilight Sparkle, Sunny Starscout, and other ponies of all generations meet at the Restaurant at the end of the Universe.
    Pineta · 12k words  ·  51  0 · 898 views

    This is one of the craziest things that I have ever tried to write and is a consequence of me having rather more unstructured free time than usual for the last week.

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    2 comments · 165 views
Jun
5th
2016

Rainbow Clouds, Earthquakes, and Old Mares’ Tales · 10:33pm Jun 5th, 2016

Here’s a story about rainbow-coloured clouds, shock waves, and the boundary between science and superstition. But this one is without flying ponies.

On May 12, 2008 in Sichuan province, China, some beautiful rainbow-coloured clouds appeared in the sky, causing many people to turn their heads, and several amateur film makers to shoot videos which would appear on YouTube.

Minutes later a magnitude 8 earthquake hit the region, causing considerable destruction and loss of life. The final death toll was around 70,000.

The story that an earthquake was foretold by an omen in the sky quickly went viral... Followed shortly by blog posts from sceptics dismissing such superstitious nonsense… Rainbow clouds are not a sign that disaster is about to strike. They have been seen many times, and the vast majority of earthquakes are not preceded by any such warning. So if you see such a pretty sight, don’t panic, but take the opportunity to admire a rare atmospheric optical phenomenon.

It seems most likely that this one was a circumhorizontal arc, which is formed when sunlight is refracted by ice crystals in high clouds. This is a different, but similar, phenomenon to a normal rainbow, which is formed by the reflection and refraction of sunlight by rain droplets, producing one or more arc-shaped bands, as explained in my flagship story.


Source

Another possible explanation is what are called iridescent clouds. Here sunlight passing through much smaller ice particles is diffracted – the waves spread out like water waves after passing through a narrow gap – different colours peaking at different angles depending on the size of the ice particles. The Pegasus Weather Team would find this a more difficult effect to reproduce. In addition to the fact that it occurs at high altitude in cold temperatures, to get a coherent effect, you need a uniform cloud of spherical icelets of uniform size. This doesn’t happen very often, so such clouds are rare, and usually only visible for seconds.


Source

The Sichuan clouds were unusual in lasting for a few minutes. But could there be any connection with the quake? The short answer is: we don’t know but probably not. But the story continues…


On the other side of the world, a team of geoscientists had installed a super-high precision magnetometer in a low noise underground laboratory (a former nuclear missile control centre) in southern France. Among other things, they were interested in magnetic signals associated with earthquakes. An earthquake will shake the air above the ground, sending a shock wave up through the atmosphere at the speed of sound. When it reaches the ionosphere—the region at the top of the atmosphere where the air is ionized by radiation from space—it generates a magnetic signal which can be detected by sensitive instruments around the world.

Such effects have been widely studied. But in addition to these post-quake signals there has been some talk, and a few observations, of magnetic precursors seen before earthquakes. The team checked their data and reported a magnetic signal at the instance of the timestamp on the YouTube videos.

It’s not entirely convincing. At this level you see jumps in the magnetic field all the time due to random bits of space weather and other effects. But it could be real. A hypothesis is that just before the quake, the stress in the rock produced an electric field pulse. This generated a magnetic field, and could by some mechanism have separated charged ice particles in the clouds, producing the conditions to favour the appearance of the rainbow colours.

This is very speculative. But similar ideas have been suggested to explain other phenomena seen before earthquakes. Intense underground electric fields could ionize the air, and lead to lights in the sky. This might also explain unusual animal behaviour.

This needs further research. Unfortunately it is very unlikely that we are anywhere close to finding a way of accurately forecasting earthquakes. It looks like earthquakes are chaotic and maybe impossible to predict. Yet many precursor signals have been documented. While a lot of these are probably just a coincidence, there are also some which seem to be real. If we can better understand the mechanisms leading up to a quake and what the triggers can be, we might be able to do some level of forecasting.

One difficulty is that this is a field of research with plenty of crackpots and pseudoscientists, and a history of extravagant claims. This makes it a risky area to work in if you want to be taken seriously as a scientist. Even if you are scrupulously careful to report accurate data, and not exaggerate your conclusions, just being associated with other peoples’ crazy ideas can be enough to damage your reputation. At a meeting of the American Geophysical Union a few years ago, I noted that those talking about earthquake precursors were not mainstream geophysicists, but people like me, who worked mainly in some other area (in my case particle physics instrumentation) and just do geophysics on the side. That’s not to say that the mainstream community were dismissive of these ideas—they were often very encouraging—but they want someone else to take it forwards.

Maybe with a worldwide network of underground precision electric and magnetic field measurement stations, we could identify further precursors, and move towards a new era of earthquake forecasting. Unfortunately getting the funding for something so speculative, with no guarantee it will achieve anything, is not going to be easy… Anyone got a few million dollars spare?

Comments ( 7 )

I can't help but think that such an instrument network as you describe would produce a great deal of data that would be usable in general geophysical research, and not just as it applies to earthquake prediction. We need more funding for basic research!

I always assumed the unusual animal behavior was their sensing inaudible-to-humans vibrations associated with the tremendous pressure the rock is under… But then again I took exactly one geology course, and only because my school required it.

Stress in the rock - I could buy that. I imagine that the sliding of tectonic plates against one another could build quite a bit of static electricity as well.

I wouldve gone with teh electric fields myself, given magnetic means change in electric, and youd expect large charges to be Moving once the plates start shifting, but the electric field cranks one way then very much faster in the other. Maybe the first thing anyone should do is cross reference the various rock types with the mineral constituents, and use percentage of quartz and average crystal size as first axis for comparison, big crystals for a given stress can have larger voltages, but then you need the other minerals to be insulating until breakdown.

Theres a couple tricks Id like to try, but mentioning them would really get the kooks and cranks jumping on before any serious work could be done, as it involves stochastic oscilators for earthquake distribution and occurance, and certain recent published results in packing of spheres in regular crystaline structures, which you then distort in certain ways due to motion stress buildup.

111
110
101
011,010
111,110,101

4001209 What are those binary numbers for?

4003339

Thats the tree of values for a three bit sequence limited stochastic, or chaotic, oscilator, assuming the simplest rules observed in real behaviour holds true. Its a far simpler and shorter version of the ten bit sequences used in the research into free running klystron transmitter oscilators that was the second time I saw these rules, many years ago.

It makes for a Very efficient data transmission method, but because its essentially how noise is created, if interstellar transmissions use the method, SETI will never detect them, because its looking for continous signals. Which dont propagate as far, are harder to pickup, require complex performance sapping stabilisation etc etc.

Just something I like to play with as I keep seeing various things over the years but no big releases. Its too big a change.

I think physics is just messing with us. Sometimes I think that the universe messes around with the laws of physics, like it tries out various things before we get the knowledge/technology to actually measure them. It's only when we can actually tell what physics is doing in any particular area does it nail it down. Like someone who keeps stealing snacks from the company fridge until a security camera is put up.

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